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History Centricity
History Centricity
39. Hidden Histories of the States [Part 1]
Join us as we dive deeper into different State histories starting with the New England and North Eastern States. We compare each State we have visited and what memories have been spurred from our various experiences while visiting each.
For more info visit: historycentricity.com
Music by: ashamaluevmusic
And welcome back to another episode of History Centricity, where history is central and essential to how we view our world. For more information, you can check out HistoryCentricitycom, and in this episode we are joined as usual by my co-host, darrell Humphrey.
Speaker 2:Well, hello and ho, ho, ho, as our president said early Well hello and ho ho ho, as our president said early.
Speaker 1:Well, darrell is a historian and, if you have been following along with us in the podcast, he is a recently retired teacher and adjunct professor, holding a bachelor's in history and political science and a master's in education. He's taught both math and history for over 40 years at the high school, junior college and university level. We are both passionate about keeping history alive. And what are we talking about in this episode?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I want to say one thing too, about when you said holding a bachelor's and all that. I wish I could find what I'm supposed to be holding. I think I've reached that age where I couldn't tell you where my degrees are, so that just struck me. Well, at least they're somewhere, right.
Speaker 1:They're somewhere in a house yes, well, at least they're somewhere recorded too at the university level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but they've got them, at least I can prove it. No, today, what stemmed from this? As I went around to all the bookstores you know occasionally I go to bookstores, you know, just occasionally. Occasionally I have a house full of books. But I started seeing a lot of these books are on things like taking trips through the 50 states and places to visit in the 50 states and I thought, hmm, that might be interesting, since I've got like 13 that I've not visited yet and I'm hoping to live long enough to make some trips to visit them, just for a little while, just to see kind of what things are like around the country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and you've got a good start right, oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I've visited 37 so far. Wow, that's more than me.
Speaker 2:I've even got a magnetic map of the US where I put little magnets on the states as I visit them. Oh, that's awesome. So that's what stemmed this. And then I thought, okay, for every one of those states there's hidden history. And since we're history centricity and I thought, well, that'd be cool to talk about in each of the states, whether either of us had visited the state or have stories which are history or, in my years of teaching, where those states have become a vital part of the study. So that just kind of stemmed me up to that and I started researching and thinking about where I'd been, where I'd not been and some of the stories that are involved in that.
Speaker 1:So in your experience, both teaching and places that you have been, that's what kind of originated this whole idea of the hidden history of the states.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I thought it's hidden pretty well, but we can still talk about it, you know. Yeah, for people that haven't been there, or people wanting to go there, or people that even have been, Right have been and it spurs a memory back. That's what it did with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thinking about the states.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what states do we want to start off with? Well, the first ones we started off with. I've never visited.
Speaker 2:And I did it in regions. Okay, so the New England region was the one that I have not visited region was the one that I have not visited. The only state of the New England area around there that I've even been into is New York. But I started thinking about okay, let's start at the top, and the top would of course be Maine, Maine, yeah, and never visited there Capital Augusta. I thought that's neat because I have connections with Augusta, Georgia.
Speaker 1:What connections do you have there? I?
Speaker 2:have family and some relatives there in Augusta and I've been to Augusta and I know about the Augusta big golf tournament that's there, the Masters, the Masters is played there and so forth. So that's a connection, I guess you say, with the capital. But I thought that would be neat.
Speaker 1:Yeah to go yeah we'll uh we'll get to georgia, and you visited maine yeah, I've visited, maine so tell us a little bit about what you thought about, where and why you were up there visiting maine yeah, so we uh took a trip with my family up to Maine and kind of the New England states on a New England cruise, cruising up the coast into actually. We went actually into Canada, oh okay, up into Nova Scotia, but one of our stops along the way was into Bar Harbor, maine, okay, and along the coast there, and we also visited Acadia National Park. Oh yeah, I can imagine Wow.
Speaker 1:So Acadia is beautiful just by the fact that it is located right there on the coast, and all of these waves from the Atlantic are washing up onto the massive boulders and rocky formations of the park itself, which is all preserved, of course. But also another fun fact about Acadia is that it is the smallest national park in the country, so it's a really cool national park, one of the few that I have, you know, been to. Of course, a lot of the more famous ones are out west.
Speaker 2:That gives me a tingly feeling too, you talking about the coast, because I'm a big lighthouse person.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I collect lighthouse and nautical things. When I was able to climb lighthouses, I would go to the lighthouses.
Speaker 1:Well, you and I have climbed a lighthouse ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was back in the day when I hadn't had a heart attack.
Speaker 1:From the height alone, you probably had a heart attack.
Speaker 2:Oh, the height alone was terrible.
Speaker 1:And the claustrophobia inside.
Speaker 2:Yes, as you go up to the verticals.
Speaker 1:What do they call those staircases? It's like a corkscrew.
Speaker 2:I know what you're talking about. It's like a corkscrew cylindrical. Spiral, yeah, spiral. That's it, yeah, spiral staircase.
Speaker 1:Yep when you feel like you're going to fall down the stairs, every single step. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I wish I had gone when I was younger so I could, you know, climb those. But those days are gone. Well, they're nice to really see from the outside too, because of how much of a character they show in different parts of the country, in different parts of the world. Well, I just love the lighthouse and I love the connotation that goes with the Christian aspect of the lighthouse showing the way, and so Maine is one of those states I would love to visit. Yeah, I need to go on that new england cruise, but all those states up there, but, um, uh, one thing about maine that a lot of people may not know and I don't know if you know, tony, or not, but maine as a colony was used as a compromise in the 1920 1920 between slave and free states.
Speaker 1:So this was before the Civil War.
Speaker 2:This was before the Civil War. It was called the Missouri Compromise.
Speaker 1:Why was it called Missouri if it was so far up?
Speaker 2:north. Okay, well, here's the deal. Up until that point. I said 1920 earlier. That should have been 1820.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 1820. 1820. 1860. I'm going 100 years over, 1860 being the.
Speaker 2:Civil War. Civil War, right. But in 1819, you have a state that comes into the Union, which is Alabama, and they had come in as a slave state. And so the next state that's to come into the union, according to the laws and things that they had established, would be a free state, and it kept everything equal. So when it came time, Missouri was the one that applied for it. And of course, if you know anything about the location of the history, Missouri is kind of in the middle of the nation but heavily influenced with slavery. So Missouri couldn't come in as a slave state because that would give an advantage in the government. So Henry Clay my relative, by the way, and who was Henry Clay?
Speaker 2:He was a senator from Kentucky and he will run for president several times, he'll be Speaker of the House and very involved in government, and he proposed this compromise where, at the same time, missouri comes in as a slave state, maine would come in as a free state and so the balance would be restored. Restate and so the balance would be restored. And then at that point there was going to be there had been a conflict about and they said okay, the nation needs no more slavery past the Mason-Dixon line. Well, if you look on a geographical map, missouri is past the Meigs and Dixon line, and so by letting Missouri come in as a slave state, that's going to ruffle a lot of feathers. So they let Maine come in as the free state to keep everything, and then said there'd be no more slave states. This is the beginning of the end of slavery in the nation, because the only place slavery could occur would be south of that Mason-Dixon line. Now Interesting.
Speaker 2:And there's not much there that grows the element of cotton to keep the slavery imported. Yeah, south of the Mason-Dixon line, slavery imported south of the Mason-Dixon line. So you know, maine is a fairly important state for our union in this and the compromise ruffled feathers, but it kept the Civil War from happening for 40 more years. Wow. So it saved our country for 40 years, in spite of people like Andrew Jackson becoming it as president, in which Henry Clay and Andrew Jackson are mortal, mortal enemies. They hate each other. A little interesting tidbit I was reading a book about Andrew Jackson that talked about him as an orphan living with a EB White up in North Carolina. Eb EB White, I think, was the name I know. White is the last name. He was a former revolutionary soldier. He was a former revolutionary soldier and, of course, jackson's heavily involved in the revolution as a young kid, and so forth. Well, what was interesting as I read that was that I was a member of the Sons of the American Revolution through this white person.
Speaker 2:How so Somewhere in our family line.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so Andrew Jackson, as an orphan, lived with him Interesting, and so he was looked upon as Andrew Jackson's step-in father.
Speaker 1:Oh, he was older.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so now it means I'm akin to Henry Clay and Andrew Jackson, who hated each other. So there goes the family, the umphrey luck, as we call it. The umphrey. Luck has struck again.
Speaker 1:Well, what else do you have? On Maine.
Speaker 2:Maine is just that country, the state, a lot of it Maine. It was originally controlled by Massachusetts Bay Colony there in the New England area. The Massachusetts Bay Colony colony there in the new england area, the massachusetts bay colony which is what we know with pilgrims, puritans in that era, all of those states, like all of those new england states you name all the seven of them that's up there whatever, at one point or another, was controlled by massachusetts bay colony it was the colony that was first established.
Speaker 1:That was the first established colony, the first people here in America, the Pilgrims, the Puritans Right.
Speaker 2:The first.
Speaker 1:Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:That's what we're thinking about right and you know we think about them. You know the Pilgrims and Puritans but they're not a real nice people. So you've got Quakers in the area and you've got Shakers in the area, religious sects that proceed to maybe get under the skin of the pilgrims and the Puritans that are there, and that's the reason you're going to have all these breakoffs like Vermont, new Hampshire, rhode Island, connecticut.
Speaker 1:So people just broke off and formed their own colonies, which then eventually became these new England States.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes and most of it was because of religious persecution.
Speaker 2:Oh, persecution, oh yeah, big time religious persecution oh yeah, big time religious persecution through the Massachusetts Bay Colony, gotcha and all the history of the different ones with Ann Hutchison and the Providence, rhode Island and some of those areas there. But Maine's just an interesting state. British wanted it very much. They were very interested in it because it controls if you look at the map it controls the St Lawrence Seaway coming down into the country. It's at the head of Maine that area. So at one point British said we want half of it, we'll give America half. So it's been a lot of consternation in Maine and that's the reason I've always wanted to go up there and see what it was like. And then you got the Canadians that are involved in it too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, we did have Maine lobster too, while we were there.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, the whole kit and caboodle when it comes to the Maine lobster. I want the tail, I don't want the caboodle. You want the caboodle, not the kit. I want the tail, not the caboodle.
Speaker 1:You want the caboose.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think I can do the whole Maine lobster.
Speaker 1:Well, the funny thing is, my grandmother was along with us on this cruise and they brought that whole Maine lobster out and set it down in front of her on the table.
Speaker 2:What's this?
Speaker 1:And of course, everyone gets a lobster to themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And this was in Maine. This was not on the boat.
Speaker 2:That is wild.
Speaker 1:She convinced the server, the waiter or waitress to crack, crack it and cut it, fix it, I would do good and be in the good old southern bell that she was.
Speaker 2:She was able to connive and convince oh, I can see you, I can say you're doing that yes, so yeah just being who she was very definitely yeah, yeah so that's a good memory from maine.
Speaker 1:Um, plenty more I'm sure my parents know of um. But yeah, moving along, what's the next state that we have the next?
Speaker 2:next one is new hampshire. New hampshire, uh, capital being concord, yeah, uh, concord, new hampshire. Not not much on this, but there's a. There's an element of again a heavily influenced religion here called the Shakers. Yeah, you mentioned that before. Yeah, the Shakers. From what I understood about the Shakers, they're kind of a branch off the Quakers. They have different types of strong, strong beliefs. You know the Quakers are the the endow and you know the real prime. They're very conservative in their beliefs.
Speaker 2:They only eat oatmeal and grits. Interesting, interesting there, interesting there. If you look at the oatmeal box Quaker Oats it's really interesting. It's got a man. Looks like William Penn, but there's been consternation that that's not him.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll get to Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2:But he's holding things in his hand and they are qualities of oats and it's like diligence, faith, things like that. So the shakers were there kind of keep to themselves. They're not really out there as much, but they're very conservative in their beliefs, formed from ministers in the cop bay colony there that would dissatisfied with what was going on as far as persecution, and so they fled to this area of new hampshire and and established it. Of course this is one of your original 13 colonies do you know where the name Hampshire?
Speaker 1:I guess Hampshire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it comes from the British area. Like Hampshire, I think there is a section of England Hampshire, but I'm not sure. Okay, I'm not sure on that. Like New England, yeah, I know, like New Jersey comes from the island of Jersey. Yeah, I know like New Jersey comes from the island of Jersey. So Hampshire, I think, is just a section of England.
Speaker 1:Okay, gotcha, what else do you have on New Hampshire?
Speaker 2:I've never visited it, never heard much about it. That's about it, okay. I'd love to go up there because of just the foliage from the fall. I don't know if some of the parks are up there too.
Speaker 1:All of these states have phenomenal foliage come fall and people don't even realize. I mean, here in the South we have great foliage, but it's nothing compared to the different variations, different varietals of trees up there.
Speaker 2:That's what I've heard. Yeah, yeah, so it's nothing compared trees up there. That's what I've heard. Yeah. Yeah, so it's nothing compared to up there, beautiful New Hampshire. So I think it's up today. I think it's probably a lot of the wealthy have their homes in that area too, and it of course extends up to the St Lawrence and that area up in there. So not much on New Hampshire. That's one state I wanted to visit.
Speaker 1:And then further inland, are we going to talk about Vermont?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Vermont's next. Okay, capital, montpelier. That's just a name within itself, right there, I love that. Can you say that again? Montpelier, p-e-l-i-e-r, so it's a French, it's a. French Montpelier, samuel de Champlain, explored this area, so therefore you have Lake Champlain. I've never visited the area. I've heard Lake Champlain is one of the most beautiful sites in our country.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never been to Vermont. Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:Vermont. You know what Vermont means, right.
Speaker 1:Land of maple syrup, good try.
Speaker 2:Nice, try, nice try, kid Sorry, nice try, kid Sorry. Charlie, sorry Charlie. That means Green Mountain, green Mountain, Vermont. It's named from Verde Mountain, verde Mountain Well, that would be Spanish.
Speaker 1:Verde.
Speaker 2:That would be true. That would be Spanish, very true. But Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys are from this area and they're very important in the Revolutionary War.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Ethan Allen controlled the area. The settlers around there were very loyal to him. For a while. It was a real problem with him because the military part of that built up there in Vermont was loyal to him, to the fact that they were not loyal to the government. They're loyal to their general and that's Ethan Allen. So you had a coup. So you better be on your toes with it because if you do something against what he thinks or what he stands for, you're going to lose the military might of Vermont in the Revolutionary War. And he was not an easy guy to get along with. He was not an easy guy to get along with From what I've read and things I've read, very irascible and angry all the time at everybody, short-fused, you mean, yes, short-fused.
Speaker 2:He had his way or no way and he controlled his boys that way, boys that way, and luckily george washington was able to kind of bow to him and let him control things in order to use him because he's a big revolutionary hero of the area, controlling the forts around the area and defeating the british around the area. So hey, after the government set up, then you have a lot of problems out of this area because there's opposition to the government that results from it and so you have a lot of independent thinking about our government in this area and as long as Ethan Allen was around he could control his boys or whatever. When he died then there was real opposition to the government and of course you've heard of some of the rebellions. When the government first formed that, washington had to go up there and put down rebellions around the area and some of them were these ex-Ethan Allen boys Interesting. Okay, they got into it.
Speaker 1:Huh, well, is that all you have on Vermont?
Speaker 2:Yeah, never been there. Like I said, I would love to go there and see if it's really Green Mountain.
Speaker 1:Is that a mountainous area like the Catskills?
Speaker 2:Is that part of the?
Speaker 1:New York, catskills Mountains, I think so. I'm not that familiar.
Speaker 2:Or the Adirondacks. Yeah, is that the area Adirondacks? Adirondacks, is it an area?
Speaker 1:I think Something like that. But yeah, moving on, what other states do we have? Rhode Island, rhode Island, the smallest, small Moving on, what other states.
Speaker 2:do we have Rhode Island? Rhode Island the smallest state in the country. Never visited here.
Speaker 1:And why?
Speaker 2:is it so small? One of the reasons is that Rhode Island became a catch-all for anybody that had oppositional problems with Massachusetts Bay Colony. They would flee to this colony and different sects, different religions, different beliefs toward the British crown, different beliefs about slavery, so it's not going to expand very easily. They're going to keep to themselves. Many of them, in fact there were several judges that had made decisions in the Massachusetts Bay Colony against some of the pilgrims and Puritans of the area because of persecution and they had to flee for their lives and Rhode Island would offer them a place to stay. There were many of them that went to Rhode Island and came back to Boston to rescue some of their Quaker friends.
Speaker 2:At one point I can't remember the lady's name I know Ann Hutchison actually helped settle the Rhode Island area, but this other lady I can't remember what her name was. Now it escapes me but she ended up going back to Boston like four times and every time she went back to Boston she approached the Boston government and said you're wrong for the persecution. So they were hanging people, they were hanging Quakers, hanging some of her friends, and they said at one point they told her husband to take her away back to the colony to control her. And so he took her back. But she came back again and tried to rescue her friends and they said if you come back into our colony of Boston or whatever, we will hang you. So she fled.
Speaker 2:She came back again A third time. A third time, she came back four different times and finally, the last time she came back, they hung her. She came back. They hung her as apostate and blasphemous towards the pilgrims and the Puritans. What's going on with her thinking? But that's a pretty strong element in spite of her husband. You know they said, husband, you can't control her.
Speaker 1:She was marrying somebody.
Speaker 2:I can't remember what her name was now.
Speaker 1:So her following was primarily in the Rhode Island area.
Speaker 2:Well, it was in the Boston Massachusetts Bay Colony area, but she kept fleeing to Rhode Island.
Speaker 1:And that's where she was living when she died. So her following relocated to Rhode Island.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, many of them followed her. She was a follower of Anne Hutch, so her following relocated to Rhode Island. Yeah, many of them followed her. She was a follower of Anne Hutchinson's too.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And some of them.
Speaker 1:So why is Rhode Island named Rhode Island when it is not an island?
Speaker 2:I do not know that. That's an interesting question.
Speaker 1:I mean, is there an island that it's named after?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I don't think it's named after the island of Rhodes. If that's what you're thinking, I think it may be called Rhode Island, meaning an island of solace for those that they welcome everybody.
Speaker 1:Of solace. Yeah, they welcome everybody in Of solace. Yeah, they welcome everybody in Open door policy.
Speaker 2:Right and.
Speaker 1:Well, how ironic to flee persecution from England and then to then flee from persecution from the pilgrims.
Speaker 2:Get that now when you fled originally from. Yeah what did the pilgrims do? They fled because they were persecuted in England. And now, why are these people fleeing Massachusetts Bay Colony? Because the pilgrims have gone. Nuts, too much turkey.
Speaker 2:I guess so yeah, Too many Thanksgivings. We can go to that all day too. What's interesting today, Rhode Island is places for summer Mansions and houses along the coast. The wealthy have their summer homes there. Kind of interesting that, and you would probably think this, but nobody really thinks about it.
Speaker 2:But the last state or colony basically to give up slavery, bringing slavery into their colony, was Rhode Island. But that's because the British influenced it so much. But that's because the British influenced it so much and because of the people that were there. It's interesting, but ironic in the same instance. They were so attuned to British things and so forth. It was a long time before British got rid of the act of slavery. They were one of the last to get rid of slavery in the world too, the slave trade, and Rhode Island is one of those last ones too. And so when the government is formed, you can expect what's going to be one of the last ones to accept our Constitution. Rhode Island Interesting Very much.
Speaker 2:They went to, from what I had read, in order to accept our Constitution. They put it in their legislature. It failed. They put it to a vote to the people. It failed, Wow, To ratify it. They were not going to ratify it. They were not going to ratify it. And the convention where they finally did ratify it, it was interesting. I had read about it and it was that they brought their people in when they were told they were going to vote on ratification of the Constitution. They left, so there would not be a majority, in order to do their business in their convention, but the person that was in charge of it went ahead and declared there is a majority, went ahead and voted and by a narrow two votes or something like that, it was ratified. Wow, so a lot of shenanigans going on. That's something that a lot of people don't realize. In the early, early years of our government, people were not happy with what you know, the Articles of Confederation. We've talked about this before.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, go back in our other episodes on the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence. Yeah, the early ages and the early thing of the Constitution.
Speaker 2:They're not happy yeah, they're not happy with how the compromises worked out. They're not happy with state powers being taken away. They're not happy with individual rights, individual powers, being taken away. They're not happy with individual rights, individual powers being taken away, even though we have a Bill of Rights, which is very ironic that we have such a you know, looks like a great government. But there was a lot of consternation with the ratification in that New England area, especially With Rhode Island being the last pillar to come up and protect. They're the last of our 13.
Speaker 1:So what's the next state we have? So we've discussed Vermont, new Hampshire, maine and Rhode Island. What's the next state that we have in New England that we're looking at?
Speaker 2:Yeah, since I've never visited the New England area, but Connecticut is one. We talked a little bit about it too, capital being Hartford. Again, connecticut is one of those that Puritan founding from Boston because of persecution from our dear people, the pilgrims. As you can tell, I don't particularly like pilgrims, but they're involved, the same as some of the others. It was some of the judges in the Massachusetts Bay Colony that fled to Connecticut. Also Ann Hutchison involved in that too, with Connecticut.
Speaker 1:So everything seems intertwined.
Speaker 2:Intertwined. And then we got Massachusetts, which the capital is Boston I've never visited.
Speaker 1:So nothing more on Connecticut, you have.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait, wait. I really don't have much more on Connecticut. I don't even know what Connecticut would. I know it's on the shoreline and there's probably a lot of lighthouses and things like that.
Speaker 1:Well, the US Coast Guard Academy is there. Oh, that's right, I forgot about that. That's one of the military academies. I mean, I think most of them are in New York.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Other than of course the Air Force one, yeah, but yeah, I don't have that much on Connecticut, except it's hard to spell and that was always a pain.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Don't ask me to spell it which?
Speaker 2:I love to do with the kids because I like to get them on spelling. But they said I was terrible in spelling. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, let's move on to Massachusetts then. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Massachusetts. Of course it has deep, deep American independence presence there, with Boston and the birthplace of it, but again, the persecution of Quakers that were rampant here by pilgrims and Puritans. But that's the central area that controlled most of New England and the way Massachusetts went, New England goes, and it's somewhat that way today. If you look at the progression of things with political factions and so forth, Massachusetts is your leader of that New England area. They all kind of I don't want to say vote as a bloc, but it's pretty much the same way. You visited Massachusetts, though you visited a holy city.
Speaker 1:What Fenway Park.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Fenway.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm a big Boston Red Sox fan, After visiting Fenway during an off-season and taking the tour and then being fortunate enough to be gifted tickets third row behind home plate for our wedding by my brother-in-law so really no price can be put on that experience. So a lot of credit goes to him and his generosity in giving both me and my wife the opportunity to go out there and go up there and experience that in the oldest baseball stadium in the country resemblance that it gives every time how intimate of a setting that is, how small and how I mean it's, it's been the same, um, it's.
Speaker 1:It's been recognized as a historical landmark, which means it can never be torn down, it can never be, uh, added on to in a certain, by certain standards.
Speaker 2:It's central to the history. There we have history centricity. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So you can really step foot into that park, into that.
Speaker 2:Does it carry you back to the old? You feel like you're back in the old days with baseball.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, depending on what seat you sit in. I mean there's certain seats there that are made of the old wrought iron and wood.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow down seats that are passed down the tickets, the season tickets are passed down from generation to generation, just like alabama football, just on a bigger scale, and they're passed down from generation to generation and you really feel like you're elbow to elbow back in the old days With the green monster and the kooky corners of the layout of the stadium and the layout of the field. It just really gives that. And I mean they've also trademarked the color Fenway Green, oh, so that you cannot use that.
Speaker 2:Use that color.
Speaker 1:Green color anywhere else.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 1:Other than in Fenway Park. I mean, there's little things like that. Everywhere you look, there's one red seat out in center field, which is, you know, in the history. Telling the story is Ted Williams, who is the greatest hitter of all time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Played for the Red Sox, went off to war, world War I or or two. Came back from the war, I can't remember which, but he served his time.
Speaker 1:Came back from the war still hit 300, still hit 400, still hit 500, you know yeah that great of a player, was that great of a citizen and he spotted a guy out in center field that was napping on a afternoon game and, with his straw hat down below his eyes, and pointed him out, hit a home run, hit the guy right in the head and to this day they have a red seat out in the center field bleachers that shows where he was sitting that shows where that guy was sitting and I don't know if people still sit in that seat or not.
Speaker 1:But apparently you know some games they reserve that seat where nobody sits in that seat. So I mean little things like that, little nuances that make the whole park just extra special, yeah.
Speaker 2:And Boston has such a fan base. My gracious oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:I mean especially when they broke the curse, yeah. And then they broke a lot more records again back with Fear the Beard, where all of these misfits had beards, yeah. It was just a great time in the early 2010s and even before then. But yeah, just a great time being a fan for the Red Sox.
Speaker 2:I remember that I went to an Atlanta Braves game where they played the Red Sox and I thought, oh, this will be a nice game to go to. It was like a home game for Boston Red Sox. Yeah, there's a lot of them. I mean, I've never seen so many Red Sox fans.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's a lot of fans in and around the entire country.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Not just Boston, and I love Boston. My wife and I were able we had the privilege to, you know walk around downtown, walk around the Freedom Trail, walk around the USS Constitution there that is in the Bay, go through that museum. Also, eat at some good local restaurants like the. It's not Acme, it's an oyster house there. I can't really remember now, but it has a specific booth in the restaurant on the second floor where John F Kennedy would frequent.
Speaker 2:And that was his booth. That's the JFK booth. That was his booth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you can sit in the JFK booth. Oh, that's cool, yeah, so that's really cool. So, yeah, different stuff like that that make Boston unique.
Speaker 2:It's just so heavily in the history I've never been. I would love to go to that area. All of New England, as you can see, I've not visited. This just makes me want to go there badly.
Speaker 1:That also reminds me Oyster House was Union Oyster House. Union Oyster House, and you know how big of a fan both my wife and I are of oysters, of which you are not.
Speaker 2:I have partook from them, but I am not a fan of raw oysters, no.
Speaker 1:But anyways, I've fried.
Speaker 2:Now you fry them, I'm good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's right there in the Boston Public Market, but great town, great city, it feels smaller than it really is, so it's not like a big New York City. I mean you ride public transportation, you ride throughout the city. It's got a great park there but it's also divided by a great river. You know, there, you have MIT, you have Harvard, you have. There, you have MIT, you have Harvard, you have, you know, boston College.
Speaker 2:I was going to say a lot of our intellectuals in our nation comes from that area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as far as education Early history all the way through. Yeah education and public figures.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, very heavily influenced with historical figures that are from the area, so it would be a great visit, yeah. Thank you for you being able to visit and to give us a little glimpse into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hopefully we can get you up there sometime.
Speaker 2:Oh, that would be cool. Of course, you might just have to leave me Just like go away. I'll just be here the rest of the days. Just bury you in the dirty water up there. Bury me right next to the USS Constitution. And then our last one is New York, and I've visited New York, so I'm excited about this one.
Speaker 1:And where in New York have you been?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, well, first of all, the capital is Albany. I did not make it to Albany, but we did, as a family, go up and stayed about three or four days in Niagara Falls is just, it was just amazing. The Maid of the Mist ride that's up there.
Speaker 1:You didn't get married on that boat.
Speaker 2:No, I did not. This was back in my teenage days, I guess it was. My family always took a trip in the summer, and so this was one of our trips. My dad had gone up and been on TDY up in the New Jersey area, and so he wanted to go to the New York area. So we actually drove to the New York area.
Speaker 1:And how old were you?
Speaker 2:I was probably 12, 11 or 12. So this was very impactful on your memory.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yes, I remember it so well. My dad was pretty bad about seeing sites. If you've seen it. He didn't want to go to the Grand Canyon because he said I've already seen a big ditch. So we didn't go to the Grand Canyon. So he had already seen a waterfall and so I said, well, let's go anyway. I wanted to go, so we planned to stay the one night and so we got our motel and got on a tour for Niagara Falls and several of the museums around the area and Maid of the Mist and all that around their area and made of the mist and all that, and then ended up going back and getting another night's stay at the motel because we wanted to go for another day to go in the area. It was so great. Unfortunately didn't get to Ellis Island, statue of Liberty or any of those things. I've not been in New York City.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mean more the Atlantic coast, yeah yeah, we were more on the lake Long Island is what you're referring to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were more on the Great Lakes area. Yeah.
Speaker 1:New York is a bigger state than you think it is.
Speaker 2:It's a huge day and and a lot of people don't realize that new york is a very, very important um state in the fact that they're one of the last four to ratify the constitution. There was a lot of consternation and a lot of liberalism and conservatism in that state. They were not going to ratify the Constitution. They even said if we ratify it we'll probably secede. They're one of the first to mention secession.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:They are one of the first of the states to mention that if we don't like what's going on, we're going to get out of the government. I don't know what they were going to do. What are you going to do? Join back with England after the defeat? But they were going to secede and that prevalent attitude kept itself all the way up through Civil War. It's a hotbed for the Civil War. There was talk that New York would join the Confederacy.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And secede from the Union, and if it did, just the fact of the physical, geographical area that it was, it would probably take all the New England area with it. Of course, yeah. And so a lot of people think that you know the Civil War was all south. But it's not.
Speaker 1:South of the Mason-Dixon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, south of the Mason-Dixon.
Speaker 1:Right Versus the north.
Speaker 2:And it's not. This is a hotbed. I mean, there were supposedly. This is probably where John Wilkes Booth met up with some people and so forth, with Jefferson Davis, about the assassination. Yeah, and I wanted to mention one last thing. Here too, there is an inscription down on the Statue of Liberty. Do you know the author of the little inscription? On the bottom, on the bottom of the base of the little inscription On the bottom, on the bottom of the base of the Statue of Liberty.
Speaker 1:Of the Statue of Liberty. No, I have not been on the island or inside the Statue of Liberty. I've only seen it from a boat.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, a lady by the name of Emma Lazarus wrote a poem and it has been down on the base of the Statue of Liberty and it kind of illustrates this and we interpret it. I'm sure you've heard. Give me your huddled masses yearning to be free and so forth, standing for the statue. I want to read you the poem. It's not very long. But she was a socialist, she was an anti-government person, she was for the people, all the people in the world, in different categories and so forth. But this is her poem. It's called the New Colossus, so forth, but this is her poem. It's called the New Colossus.
Speaker 2:Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame with conquering limbs astride from land to land. Here at our sea-washed sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch whose flame is the imprisoned lightning In her name, mother of exiles, from her beacon hand glows worldwide welcome. Her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. Keep you, ancient lands, your storied pomp, cries she with silent lips. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door and that's the poem that's on the Statue of Liberty and we're always told give me your tired, your poor, and so forth. It was a real positive type thing. But if you listen to the poem, it wasn't. It talks about that old colossus over in the old world which stood on a Greek island and all the pomp and circumstance about it. So it's an anti-European poem which I found really interesting.
Speaker 1:So why is that? Even on? Let's see. So let's back up. The statue came from overseas, as a gift, as a gift from France.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's interesting and ironic that you've got an anti-European poem on the base of the statue. So did?
Speaker 1:we build the base and then the statue was put on it.
Speaker 2:I think we built the base.
Speaker 1:Yes, Therefore, we decided what was to go on the base?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and why is?
Speaker 1:her poem versus other poems.
Speaker 2:She was just one of the leading socialists of the time, of that time period, and this is a completely socialist-type thing of talking about against the European masses and so forth, that you've not done anything for your people, that we, the mother of exiles, are going to take care of everything. So I just found it a very interesting poem.
Speaker 1:That is that triggers a lot of interesting.
Speaker 2:I think she's Jewish too.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that triggers a lot of things then I think she's Jewish background too. Interesting.
Speaker 2:So I just thought that was neat. I always wanted to go and see that poem. But of course we don't get the whole poem. All we get is that one little line or phrase give me your tired your poor yeah. So I looked it up and found what the whole poem was about.
Speaker 1:In the romanticizing of our country. That's all we get. Is what you're saying, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah Well, I mean, you know they probably wanted to destroy some of those things, because it's not good to say keep your ancient lands, your pump and all this. That's not good to delve into criticizing our ancient histories, but she did and I just thought it was really neat.
Speaker 1:Well, anything else you have on New York.
Speaker 2:No, new York City, I mean, I've been there several times yeah. Yeah, you tell me some things and then I can get up and do a little song and dance New York, new York.
Speaker 1:Break out your Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra Did it my way? Yeah, Not true. Did it my way? Yeah. So first time I've been to New York was when I actually played in Carnegie Hall with my high school symphonic band. So I played trombone, was part of the same band as your son.
Speaker 2:And daughter.
Speaker 1:And daughter Yep.
Speaker 2:You're correct.
Speaker 1:We both went on that trip.
Speaker 2:I remind them quite often that they have played in Carnegie Hall.
Speaker 1:Yep, and that was actually recorded. Yeah, both audio and I think somebody caught it on video. But yeah, that was back in 2006, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I bet it was 2005,. 2006?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 5 or 6, I can't remember.
Speaker 1:We're so good. We got kicked out of a festival in Panama City Beach because we won it every year and submitted our tapes to New York City and out of every band that they could choose from. One of the bands they chose was from Podunk Alabama. Yeah, and invited us up there and we even went to a Broadway show Phantom of the Opera.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we saw a show on Broadway and went to Times whole. You know song and dance in New York. I did not care for. You know all of the again pomp. All of the you know, ironically speaking, pomp and circumstance of the whole New York City. Fast life, you know, fast life fast lane, you know everything that is involved with being a visitor and being a resident of New York City. And of course I mean I guess I'm biased because I don't really care for the Yankees. Oh dear.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying a word. I'm not going either way there because we'll get responses. I'm not saying a word.
Speaker 1:I'm not going either way there, because we'll get responses. I mean, why tear down a historical monument and build a brand new stadium right next door?
Speaker 2:There's our thoughts History centricity, leave it alone. Leave it alone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can take that many different directions.
Speaker 1:That's right On that note, we will finish out this podcast. We as a family me and my family have been back to uh New York city several times, but um, just uh, ever since nine 11, I think it became a uh much more meaningful place, uh, to honor those that both are deceased, fallen out of that tragedy, and also those who served and are fallen out of that tragedy. So honoring those who gave their lives running into a building instead of running away, that was on fire, that was falling down, that was dust going everywhere, reliving that event which we just passed here in this month of September 23 years ago, 23 years ago.
Speaker 1:How powerful that message still stands and how often we should be reminded, and reminded to never forget. So that's really what kind of rectifies New York City to me and points it in a new direction, especially with the erection of the monument, the 9-11 Memorial, which is very sobering. So anyways, neither here nor there Just wanted to pay homage to that in our topic of New York City and the state of New York.
Speaker 1:Like I said, our song and dance New York, new York, yeah there you go, but yeah, for more information you can always visit historycentricitycom. You can follow us there and submit any questions that you may have. Always great having you on the podcast, Daryl. Any last thoughts or comments?
Speaker 2:No, just enjoyed it. It was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll continue this for sure. Continue this series. And you've been listening to history centricity. Thank you for listening. Our goal is to reignite interest in history instead of feeding the fire to dismantle it. The opinions and ideas expressed are ones aimed simply at encouraging further discussion. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, spotify, amazon Music, iheartradio, stitcher, tunein or anywhere you get your podcasts. I'm your host, tony Craig, and thank you for listening to History Centricity. Thank you, thank you, thank you.